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| Alex Culley Reform UK Candidate for Southampton Itchen Photo: Alex Culley |
Andrew Pope, himself a twice Parliamentary Candidate for Labour in 2015 and then Southampton Independents in 2017, interviewed Alex Culley at Ocean Village, Southampton. Mr Culley is the Reform UK candidate at the 2024 General Election for the Southampton Itchen Constituency, which covers the East of the City.
The Conservatives are "on the verge of imploding" says Mr Culley, and Reform want to be the "actual opposition". Reform are seeking a "launch pad" for the next election, regardless of the number of seats they eventually win at the Election on the 4th July. Polls are predicting that they will win seats.
According to Mr Culley, Reform thinks that the Tories have not done Brexit properly, failed to curb mass immigration or use our new found sovereignty for our advantage. Mr Culley says that the UK should leave the European Convention of Human Rights to deal with illegal migration, and that Reform is not a climate change-denying party.
We provide the responses below so that you can make up your own minds.
Reform Surges In The Polls
At the time of writing (21st June), it is true in the BBC "Tracker" poll of polls that Conservative support has dropped since the Election was called, and the support for Reform has increased since Nigel Farage announced his candidacy in Clacton and took the leadership of Reform. For balance, support for the Liberal Democrats has also increased, and the support for Labour has decreased about the same amount as for the Tories.
Mr Culley says that this General Election is to give Reform a "launch pad" for the next election cycle, which may be in 2029. Mr Culley's "civilisational moment", as he sees it, agreeing with Professor Matt Goodwin, applies to our country but it also applies to the Conservative Party, he says.
Mr Culley says that donors sitting behind the Conservatives will be deciding who to back now. He thinks that people who remain in the Conservative Party are thinking that "this brand is so tarnished. It's tarnished probably for a generation."
The interview was conducted before the allegations surfaced into Conservative candidates betting on the election date, which the Prime Minister Rishi Sunak described in the BBC Question Time programme on 20th June as making him "incredibly angry".
For context, Sunak's campaign has been beset with controversy and mistakes, including him leaving the D-Day 80th Anniversary commemorations in Normandy early, repeated accusations of dodgy figures on Labour's tax plans, and asking a group of Welsh voters if they were looking forward to the football to bemused silence (Wales did not qualify for the 2024 European Championships).
When answering our six basic questions sent to all candidates, Mr Culley said that the country is in a "civilisational moment".
A Civilisational Moment for Our Country and The Conservative Party
Asked to explain what he meant by the "civilisational moment", Mr Culley says:
"I think for quite some time now, I have felt personally that our country is changing in ways which have not really received (a) democratic consent to the level of change that we've seen in terms of the mass immigration (b) secondly the level of debt that we are taking on.
And the reason why I think that's serious is because when I've been to one of the hustings, they were all talking about promising the earth to everybody but very little on how we are going to pay for it. And my concern is that I really don't want this country to become another Argentina.
So I'm sitting at home thinking there are two things: there is cultural change and to be clear, it's not a personal thing. And in Matt Goodwin's book, he wrote a book about National Populism. He says that most national populists are decent people. They are equated with extreme far right people sometimes, but that's not true.
Most of them have legitimate concerns about the levels of change, the pace of change, the ability to integrate, the things like the large scale protests that we have had going on and how that's disrupted lives and some of the intimidation that's been around it. That is concerning a lot of people too.
What is taught in our schools, there is some thinking out that there has been a capture of our institutions by certain ideologies, usually left-wing ideologies, or what I call postmodernist ideologies.
And that's happened really without any democratic consent. No-one's voted for that, that has come from the ground up into institutions and that is affecting how our children see themselves, how they see this country.
And all of these things coming together - our economic malaise, the large-scale migration and some of this ground up activism. It's almost like a chain reaction coming together and it is changing this country in profound ways and in my view, not for the better."
Credibility Gaps In All Manifestoes On Tax, Spending and Debt
Mr Culley says that:
"the other parties, including at the recent hustings, promise to spend your money without explaining what that means. That means tax rises or more debt".
For balance, Mr Culley was challenged on potential gaps in the Reform UK contract as there are also gaps in the other party manifestoes, despite the party's claims to be fully costed and funded. The BBC's Economics Editor Faisal Islam has argued that "voters are being taken for fools" in his analysis of the manifestoes, lacking in "credibility".
Asked specifically about the Labour Manifesto, Mr Culley thinks that:
"The Labour approach is to say as little as possible which they can be hung on because they see the polls as telling them they are in a winning position so let's not say anything that could create a problem for ourselves."
Reform Is Insurgent Unlike The Westminster Parties
Bearing in mind that both Labour candidates have failed to reply to our requests for interview and failed to answer the six basic questions, Mr Culley's assessment seems to be accurate.
Yet all candidates, not just the Labour ones, for the Westminster parties (Lib Dems, Greens, Labour, Conservatives) have also refused to answer or respond, with the exception of the Conservative candidate for Southampton Test, Ben Burcombe-Filer.
This is consistent with the view that candidates from the Westminster parties put themselves and their party first, and Southampton residents a distant last.
Will Reform be the same, if they get seats at Westminster? It is hoped not and that they will continue to be insurgent.
The Tories Have Not Done Brexit Properly
So moving on to everyone's favourite topic (or at least one of Reform UK's), Brexit!
Reform UK is currently an insurgent party at Westminster with no members of Parliament. This may change on 4th July. Reform was previously the Brexit Party, which won the 2019 European Elections. So if Brexit has not been done properly, in what ways have the Tories failed? Mr Culley says that it is in three ways:
- "We have still got part of our country in the customs union, with Northern Ireland and effectively a border in the Irish Sea splitting our people apart and it's exacerbated tensions in that region
- The Tories haven't really taken the opportunity to de-regulate or regulate smartly. I work in financial regulation myself, so it's my area of expertise. The rule book has not really moved at all, we're trimming around the edges. There are certain people in unaccountable organisations. I'm talking about quangos which really are really trying to keep the rule book as aligned as possible in the hope that we will some day have a launch pad to re-join.
- The Tories haven't used our new found sovereignty to really deal with the migration crisis. Now I know that it's important to be clear about this. We voted to leave the European Union. We didn't vote to leave the European Convention on Human Rights. They are two different things. They are kind of in the some orbit, but they are different things. That wasn't on the ballot paper. But it's become quite clear that we still haven't realised all of the benefits. We've been able to put a brake on the free movement of people within Europe but we haven't been able to extract ourselves from the European Convention of Human Rights. And that is frustrating our ability to deal with illegal migration. We need to do something about that. You can try and reform it and look what happened to David Cameron when he tried to reform the EU. He was effectively blown out. Or you could say we will leave it and we will try and put something in place which is better or more suitable to our national needs."
Should Our Domestic Rights And Freedoms Be Sacrificed?
When asked what Reform UK would replace our membership of the European Convention of Human Rights with, Mr Culley says:
"In our (Reform UK) Contract, we talk about a British Bill of Rights. The basis of human rights today and the European Convention in particular comes from actually, British jurisprudence. We had the Magna Carta. Through history, we gradually through a process of evolution, derived more freedoms, more rights.
We of course believe that human rights are important. Say for example freedom of speech, which paradoxically come under quite a lot of strain in recent years, particularly in places like Scotland. But also here in England as well.
So we do believe that everybody should be treated fairly. And we definitely believe that there should be something. But I think our premise is the European Convention of Human Rights was drafted after a specific event, World War II, and the world has changed a lot since then.
Movement of people is a lot easier, the world has shrunk. The nature of political conflict has changed. At the end of World War II, we had atomic weapons but now we've got fully armed nuclear powers facing off against each other. And that has changed how conflict operates. Most conflict now happens by proxy. And that's why the Ukraine war was very unusual. It was quite a shock to a lot of people. We didn't expect to see war in Europe again.
So I think our point is laws are synthetic constructs, they should change over time. In ancient civilisations they had legal codes that represented the way their society operated at the time. But we wouldn't look to cut-and-paste those now, because society has changed. So that's our perspective, we certainly think in terms of basic treatments, it doesn't matter who you are, where you are from, everybody should be treated equally.
That's what we want. That's the way of achieving a better outcome."
Is Reform A Climate Change-Denying Party?
In Mr Culley's answers to our six basic questions, it appeared to be that Reform Uk is a climate change-denying party. Was Mr Culley's response misunderstood? Mr Culley said:
"I think you may have misunderstood that point, with the greatest of respect.
At the beginning of our Contract, we say that climate change is a fact. The climate has always been changing since the dawn of time.
Richard Tice made the analogy towards King Canute. Funnily enough we are sitting near Canute Road right now.
Regardless of all this effort that we're putting in, to try and get what I call fractional gains in terms of limiting CO2 emissions. What we're saying is, we need to have an honest discussion about the cost-benefit analysis or the cost-benefits of some of the measures that we're undertaking.
So I think in August last year, this is on the Internet so you can find it, there were about 1600 to 1900 scientists and professionals, two Nobel Prize winners included, who said look there is no 'climate emergency'."
When challenged again, based on his previous answers to our questions, on whether he believes there is climate change, Mr Culley said:
"There is climate change. That's clear in the Contract. But the climate has always been changing. That's our point. And I think our point also is that these things are not completely settled. All science is contested. Karl Popper said if you don't have arguments based on evidence where somebody can advance evidence which is contrary to the evidence that you advanced, we are no longer talking about science, we are talking about cult. We're talking about religion. What we want to have is an honest discussion about how much the measures we're taking are costing the British public. How much of an impact is it going to have globally in emissions anyway, considering that we're only contributing about 1% of the global emissions and be honest to people about how much that's impacted their energy bills. And public services because they've got to keep their lights on. It makes everything more expensive."
When asked if Reform UK believes whether man-made climate change is real or not, Mr Culley said:
"We believe that it's made a contribution. But we believe that it's not the only factor at stake. This contribution in our view is contested as to how much and how big it is. We're not sitting in a basement at our computer saying we're a denying cult. That's not our position."
The Reform UK leaflet obtained from Mr Culley refers to "cheaper energy" and does not mention climate change explicitly. It asks for voters to "send a message to Westminster" and to vote for:
- A Plan to Stop the Boats
- Net Zero Immigration
- Cheaper Energy
- Lower Taxes
An In-Depth Interview
So, there you have it, an in-depth interview from an insurgent Reform UK party.
There was a whole host of other topics that could have been discussed in the interview, but time did not allow.
We would like to thank Alex Culley for taking the time for the interview and for answering our six basic questions in full.
Hopefully this in-depth interview, and the other answers and non-answers on the Southampton Independents will better inform Southampton residents on their vote. It is offered as a free public service.
Why Southampton Independents Is Covering the 2024 General Election
Southampton Independents recommends no particular candidate in the 2024 General Election. We publish this information and the information about the other candidates to help inform Southampton residents for their vote, or for them to choose not to vote or to positively spoil their ballot by writing "none of the above". It's your choice.
The other candidates for Southampton Itchen, with their answers, are here.
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